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Talk:VPBE/@comment-24385282-20160225215630/@comment-3974211-20160227092319
There is nothing worthwhile about AP Jarvan. He has one skill that scales with AP. If he's succeeding it's either because: # The damage on that skill is toxic. Refer to old Nidalee who literally scared people out of fights; or AP Rengar who was killing people with double-roar + Lich Bane with no room to interact. Champions like Nasus and Veigar are allowed to be absurd because they are completely immobile - Rengars, Nidalees, Jarvans and Rek'Sais have too strong of a kits to be afforded such gimmicky instagibs. # The fact he has an AP scaling is inconsequential and he's actually just another in a long string of champions who are abusing the garbage AP/AS itemization. Virtually any champion can build Sheen, Devourer and Rageblade and it'll work - it just requires a kit with a bare bones of survivability. Rek'Sai and Rengar carried the mantle before Xin and Jarvan became popular, and out of personal intrigued I've tried and seen others try champions like Shyvana, Nocturne and Aatrox. It all works and the champion is largely a "whose face and gap closer do I prefer". Now don't mistake me as the "fun police". I have enjoyed my fair share of off-builds... AP Yi, AD Fizz, Mega Assassin Evelynn... but I fail to understand how people don't realize they're abusing a badly designed systems. How people can actually believe the off-build is balanced and "fair" just because "well I lose sometimes and there's champions who definitely counter it". Or, more to the point, why people think Riot should recognize, support and enable them at the cost of the core gameplay. Why should Riot have to take into consideration AP Jarvan players if they ever want to put some work into Jarvan? There's a difference to enjoying a gimmick and expecting people to take you seriously. If the gameplay is there - it should be integrated. If it's just abusing a build path - it should be crushed under the ban-hammer of justice. AP Xin Zhao and AP Yi fell into the Noteworthy Gameplay category (i.e. players really like doing this, the itemization is inconsequential); AP Rengar fell into a middle space where "maybe we haven't put enough power in his roar"; while champions like AP Rek'Sai and AP Jarvan had/have literally nothing interesting to their gameplay (AP Rek'Sai could be interpreted as with Rengar as needing more power in her Q2, but her identity/budget doesn't have room for nor want her to be a harassing champion - if anything the damage should be removed outright and it's purpose as an scouting tool should be buffed). It's similar to why Alistar's combat was "dumbed down". It's impossible to balance a champion whose use-cases are all over the place - how are we suppose to give him the power-fantasy he deserves if sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. tl;dr: It boils down to why do you enjoy it. If it's gameplay - cool, take note. If it's "lol the damage on this ability when I build this - I bet they're so confused" or "haha, he's building armor - doesn't he realize it's my swagflag and Lich Bane that's killing him" - nah, enjoy it while it lasts. P.S. That's also not to say you cannot have champions with multiple distinct builds. Kog'Maw, for example, has two totally distinctive and equally rich gameplays styles (that is to say neither are that rich, but equally so) - arguably his Q is useless on both, but he generally uses his abilities differently in both styles. E is a disengage tool on AD while it's a damage+set-up tool on AP. But what would you propose Riot actually do the Jarvan, Xin Zhao, Rengar or Rek'Sai to make their AP gameplay more rich and interesting AND make sense - how could they balance those champions short of nerfing the only thing they have?